Roe v. Wade

[bobbyR]

What do you think?

[sir digalot]

i vote for roe!

[Justin6898]

People can be for abortion and against Roe v. Wade.

I imagine somwhere out there a person is pro abortion but also believes its the states' right to decide.

[gurutoo]

I don't think a bunch of men should have the legal right to tell a woman what to do with her body.

I think if a woman has an accident and does not want to carry her pregnancy full term-it should be her decision.

[Justin6898]

I don't think a bunch of men should have the legal right to tell a woman what to do with her body.

I think if a woman has an accident and does not want to carry her pregnancy full term-it should be her decision.

I don't think a woman should have the legal right to purposefully kill a baby.

[potter]

I don't consider human life to be all that special that it should protected any more than any other life form which we willingly slaughter on a daily basis.

We need a cook book for humans.... ;) :lol

[goddesscon]

Guru...
Dude you just totally changed my mind about you!:cheers
It is a womans health care issue...period...and it should not be thought of in the religious light that has been cast upon it..
We have discussed the whole abortion issue time and time again...however, the idea of it being a health care issue for women seems to have totally escaped the males of America...that is except for Howard Dean...he has been very good about stating it is a health care issue instead of it being a moral issue...

[Geezer38]

I found the question a little confusing, so I didn't vote. However, I absolutely agree with what gurutoo wrote:

I don't think a bunch of men should have the legal right to tell a woman what to do with her body.

I think if a woman has an accident and does not want to carry her pregnancy full term-it should be her decision.

There are far too many men that seem to feel that:

1. Women shouldn't be allowed to make these decisions because they are inferior to men.

2. Women will rush right out and get pregnant and have an abortion just to supply the fetal stem-cell industry.

3. "I planted that seed and it's damn well going to stay there!"

Many feel that life begins the moment the gnat-size sperm enters the basket ball-sized egg. Actually, both the sperm and the egg are already alive, sort of, before this union occurs. If we follow the anti-abortion logic, then we must criminalize menstruation and "wet dreams". It seems to me that a fetus is not a person until it is developed enough to live on it's own, certainly after the first trimester.

We regularly kill life forms within, and a part of, our own bodies for the benefit of our own lives. I fail to see the difference with abortion.

I say this is, and should be, a woman's decision alone.

[contracycle]

I don't think a bunch of men should have the legal right to tell a woman what to do with her body.

I think if a woman has an accident and does not want to carry her pregnancy full term-it should be her decision.

And I would like to say that I fully agree with gurutoo on this particular point.


A bitter debate and a feminine fate
Lie in tandem like two precious babes
While the former gets warmer, it's the latter that matters
Except on the nation's airwaves
And custodians of public opinion stayed back
After vainly discussing her rights
Lay hands off her body
It's not your fucking life

- Bad Religion

[Justin6898]

So, in y'all's opinions, when is it too late to have an abortion?

[Dufrel]

I don't think a bunch of men should have the legal right to tell a woman what to do with her body.

I think if a woman has an accident and does not want to carry her pregnancy full term-it should be her decision.

I will totally agree with this once men are no longer fiscally responsible for the womans choice to keep the baby.

[Stick On Tattoos]

One could have had aliens whispering in their ears saying, "Roe v Wade was a bad idea because it should have been Wade v Roe"....

So...no. You don't have to be anti-choice to be against Roe v. Wade.

[Geezer38]

Dufrel said: I will totally agree with this once men are no longer fiscally responsible for the womans choice to keep the baby.

Let's discuss this because I think it expresses an attitude of many men.

It seems to me that if you don't want the fiscal responsibly of a child, then you should make the responsible decision not to impregnate a woman. Does that sound reasonable? I believe that we, as men, are as much responsible for pregnancies as women are. Is there any reason why we should not practice birth control also?

I realize that it's tough too be responsible in the throes of passion, so it should be premeditated. That's why responsible women not wishing to become pregnant are on the pill or have their tubes tied. It's premeditated. A premeditated decision for a man might be a vasectomy. They work!

:cheers

[Anonymous Idiot Savant]

I believe that we, as men, are as much responsible for pregnancies as women are.

But not quite responsible enough ta be able to stop tha lil lady from have'n it terminated though, right?

But still responsible enough ta send half yer check each pay day her way...

[goddesscon]

AIS...
Is that what your major concern is?
The MONEY?
Well then my dear you had better go the um...cheaper route and suggest she terminates it...
I honestly am surprised about that...
Let me give you some background here folks...
I have a 16 year old...I never married the father...He was not in any way shape or form her father EVER...I lived with him for about 4 years..we stayed together for her first years and I moved out...
He has since MAYBE in the course of her life time has possibly sent $7k for her entire life...
I have supported my daughter on my OWN for half of her life...
My ex husband is about 10k short on HIS support... for our 8 year old...
So I want you to take an actual experience and think about what you said...
For FUCK SAKE...the fucking money...
Yep ya sure hit a nerve there...
I COULD have taken the CHEAPER route and terminate...I CHOSE NOT TO...
I am glad I had the option though...
Finding out you are pregnant and knowing that the other person is NOT going to be too happy about it....*well most of the time anyway*at least there is an option...I can see why some women would chose to terminate...however, each individual situation is different...Some women are happy about being pregnant and WANT to be...but sometimes shit really does happen and it is a life choice for that lady..yes her partner too,but most of the time if it was an *OOPS*... it is much less likely the male would be excited and all willing to become a parent...


Be honest...perhaps you might be that man who would be happy and support her ...most of the time the response is...what are you going to do about it?...( this said to the woman of course)
When you get a response like that...who has given up his right to aid in this decision?
He wants an escape...and this is also an option for the male in regards to becoming a parent...

If you had a one night stand after a big night out of drinking...and a few weeks later some girl calls and says we're pregnant...what would your honest answer be to her?

[Anonymous Idiot Savant]

Money? No.

Ya have ta take my comment in whole.

Guy wants ta have baby, tha woman doesn't. Guess who wins and who gets fucked in that deal.

Guy doesn't want baby, tha woman does. Guess who wins and who gets fucked in that deal.

[freespirit]

It's a fact of biology, sorry fellas. Is it fair? No. But it's the way it is.

[potter]

So, in y'all's opinions, when is it too late to have an abortion?

while I do not encourage abortion except in cases of a damaged fetus or forced pregnancy, I would answer when the fetus can live outside the womb unaided.

[potter]

Dufrel said: I will totally agree with this once men are no longer fiscally responsible for the womans choice to keep the baby.

Let's discuss this because I think it expresses an attitude of many men.

It seems to me that if you don't want the fiscal responsibly of a child, then you should make the responsible decision not to impregnate a woman. Does that sound reasonable? I believe that we, as men, are as much responsible for pregnancies as women are. Is there any reason why we should not practice birth control also?

I realize that it's tough too be responsible in the throes of passion, so it should be premeditated. That's why responsible women not wishing to become pregnant are on the pill or have their tubes tied. It's premeditated. A premeditated decision for a man might be a vasectomy. They work!

:cheers

Gotta agree with Geezer on this one. Ya don't want to be responsible, the best thing to do is keep it zipped bub....

[Dufrel]

Gotta agree with Geezer on this one. Ya don't want to be responsible, the best thing to do is keep it zipped bub....

And she should keep her fucking legs closed....right?

[goddesscon]

Exactly Dufrel....
We all stop having sex and the whole issue of abortion becomes a moot point...
Not gonna happen now is it?

[sir digalot]

wasn't wade the duck from orsons farm??? ;)

[Dufrel]

Exactly my point Goddess, I wasn't the one who suggested such things, that would be Geezer and Potter.

[elalumno]

Guy wants ta have baby, tha woman doesn't. Guess who wins and who gets fucked in that deal.

No one wins. But if you want a baby, hook up with a girl that wants on too.

Guy doesn't want baby, tha woman does. Guess who wins and who gets fucked in that deal.

Again, no one wins. But if you don't want a baby, then don't dip your wick.

It really is quite simple.

The whole issue is a woman's rights issue. A woman should get to control her body. Not some lame ass old bible thumping codger.

[goddesscon]

I am with ya EL...

[Dufrel]

The whole issue is a woman's rights issue. A woman should get to control her body. Not some lame ass old bible thumping codger.

I agree, but if I don't agree with your decision why should I have to pay for it?

Give me a form that signs away all my fatherly rights to that child (before it becomes too late to have an abortion obviously) and enjoy the results of your decision.

[elalumno]

I agree, but if I don't agree with your decision why should I have to pay for it?

Because you were an active and willing participant in the action that created the issue.

Give me a form that signs away all my fatherly rights to that child (before it becomes too late to have an abortion obviously) and enjoy the results of your decision.

Sorry, but you are missing the point. It was your decision too. You willingly particpated. You knew the risks. You knew the possible outcome.

If you are not willing to take that risk, don't play. If you play, accept your responsibility.

Unless of course you were raped.

Simple really.

[Dufrel]

Sorry, but you are missing the point. It was your decision too. You willingly particpated.

Then you should be forced to have the kid in all situations, as the woman also knew the risks.

Both arguments are equally without merit. If the father has no choice over whether the child is to be aborted or not then he should have the opportunity to relieve himself of the obligation of raising said child as well.

[elalumno]

Then you should be forced to have the kid in all situations, as the woman also knew the risks.

But that is the crux of the issue, it is a womans right to control her body.

Both arguments are equally without merit. If the father has no choice over whether the child is to be aborted or not then he should have the opportunity to relieve himself of the obligation of raising said child as well.

Well, it just doesn't work that way.

If you play, accept the consequences. Otherwise, don't play.

To whine about it after the fact is shirking responsibility.

[Dufrel]

But that is the crux of the issue, it is a womans right to control her body.

And the remainders of the fathers life it seems.


Well, it just doesn't work that way.

Not yet anyway, but I can hope.

To whine about it after the fact is shirking responsibility.

Oh the irony of that kills me.

[Justin6898]

[quote]
The whole issue is a woman's rights issue. A woman should get to control her body. Not some lame ass old bible thumping codger.

Agreed, but is a fetus part of her body...or a future being dependent on her?

[Justin6898]

AIS...
Is that what your major concern is?
The MONEY?
Well then my dear you had better go the um...cheaper route and suggest she terminates it...
I honestly am surprised about that...
Let me give you some background here folks...
I have a 16 year old...I never married the father...He was not in any way shape or form her father EVER...I lived with him for about 4 years..we stayed together for her first years and I moved out...
He has since MAYBE in the course of her life time has possibly sent $7k for her entire life...
I have supported my daughter on my OWN for half of her life...
My ex husband is about 10k short on HIS support... for our 8 year old...
So I want you to take an actual experience and think about what you said...
For FUCK SAKE...the fucking money...
Yep ya sure hit a nerve there...
I COULD have taken the CHEAPER route and terminate...I CHOSE NOT TO...


I like you more with every post I read.

[goddesscon]

Agreed, but is a fetus part of her body...or a future being dependent on her?

That is what a lot of this debate is about in the first place hun...
We all know that a fetus can NOT survive independantly from the womb... that is also why a comparison to a fetus with a parasite can be made...the fetus is not capable of surviving without it's host...the mother..
When does this change? At birth actually...the fetus at 40 weeks can most definitely survive but not with out being given assistance with being fed...however it can at least breath on it's own...
It really all boils down to the individual situation in the end..and each situation is unique to whom it is happening to...

[Anonymous Idiot Savant]

The fetus being "a part of a woman's body" is such a fucking intellectual stretch.... I get sick of hearing it.

An arm is part of your body.... not a totaly separate life form that is temporarily attached to a part of your body by a small tube that happens to be inside you.

At least be honest about this shit when you make your arguments.

And to be clear about my earlier argument. The only thing I am advocating is that if a man is willing to take on full financial and child rearing responsibility, and i'll even throw in covering the hospital bill, he should be able to take a woman to court to prevent her from having an abortion.

No parents of the guy or the woman, aunts, uncles, brothers, or sisters can get in on this. Just the father.

Let HER sign off the papers that she wants nothing to do with it, AND she doesn't even have to kick him $300 a week, or whatever, to cover the cost of rasing the child.

So she spends 9 months being uncomfortable, so fucking what. SHE knew the risks right? Suck it up and ride it out.

[Sandy]

AIS, I was going to answer your post and then decided not to. You are too coarse in your attitude about a woman's body and will ignore you.

I lost a very good friend when her blood pressure went sky high and was told she must leave the country and have an abortion. This was back in 1968 before R x W and the hospital denied her doctor's request. She died that night leaving a grieving husband and 3 children.

She could not suck it up and go on. What are you, about 12 years old?

[spindok]

[quote]
The whole issue is a woman's rights issue. A woman should get to control her body. Not some lame ass old bible thumping codger.

Agreed, but is a fetus part of her body...or a future being dependent on her?

Both.

Spindok

[elalumno]

And the remainders of the fathers life it seems.

No one and no law controls the fathers body.

Not yet anyway, but I can hope.

yes, yo can hope and vote that way. Somehow, I don't think it will get very far though.