Should American tax dollars fund stem cell research ?

[RedCon1]

According to the road runner poll on my homepage, nearly two thirds of the 10,642 people who responded said yes. It appears that Bush doesn't have the mandate that he thinks he has. Please, feel free to justify your answer. I will, of course, vote "strongly agree" because I recognize that we can not afford to lose this technological edge. what's more, we can not afford to lose the patent rights on the medicines and therapies that will result from the research. I believe that science, in general, should be, essentially, unrestrained.

[potter]

According to the road runner poll on my homepage, nearly two thirds of the 10,642 people who responded said yes. It appears that Bush doesn't have the mandate that he thinks he has. Please, feel free to justify your answer. I will, of course, vote "strongly agree" because I recognize that we can not afford to lose this technological edge. what's more, we can not afford to lose the patent rights on the medicines and therapies that will result from the research. I believe that science, in general, should be, essentially, unrestrained.

Who is this "we" you speak of?

Private industry should conduct this research. It's not my place to pay for it, nor do I want to, and only corporate interests will benefit from it financially.

[RedCon1]

The government funds research all the time which benefits American industry and, thus, America. Why exclude something as potentially profitable as this? What's more, the government gives msassive tax breaks to industry which is basically the same things as taking your tax dollars and giving them to corporations. Government and industry are permanently intertwined in this country whether you like it or want to admit or not. Hell, they throw our tax dollars away on worse things every day. Furthermore, the opposition to stem cell research goes beyond not funding it with public money right into outright banning it so, private industry is mostly unable to conduct research anyways.


Who is this "we" you speak of?

"We" is America.


Also, one of my options, "strongly disagree" didn't show up for some reason.

[potter]

OK. I don't agree with tax funding of any research which can be done through private enterprise. I get no profit from it do I? To top it off, when the corporations DO make a breakthrough and make billions on a government funded project, the government gives them a tax break. So "we" get scewed all the way around.

Tell ya what...I'm tired of being screwed by corporations AND the government.

BTW...I have no problems with stem cell research itself.

[RedCon1]

Frequently, government grants for research go to universities. It isn't just a corporate thing. In the end, Americans as a whole benefit from this technology either way. I completely understand your frustration with corporate America; however, I believe stem cell technology to be vitally necessary to Americans in the upcoming years when the baby boomers start requiring advanced care. There will be far fewer taxpayers to fund medicare and medicaid and SS. Any technology that helps keep healthcare costs down should be explored to the maximum extent possible regardless of any other issues. Furthermore, this technology would provide a boost to bio-tech stock possibly even leading us to a bullish market. If foreign companies end up dominating this arena, we will surely be kicking ourselves for our various misplaced ideals in 10-15-20 years.

[potter]

Frequently, government grants for research go to universities. It isn't just a corporate thing. In the end, Americans as a whole benefit from this technology either way. I completely understand your frustration with corporate America; however, I believe stem cell technology to be vitally necessary to Americans in the upcoming years when the baby boomers start requiring advanced care. There will be far fewer taxpayers to fund medicare and medicaid and SS. Any technology that helps keep healthcare costs down should be explored to the maximum extent possible regardless of any other issues. Furthermore, this technology would provide a boost to bio-tech stock possibly even leading us to a bullish market. If foreign companies end up dominating this arena, we will surely be kicking ourselves for our various misplaced ideals in 10-15-20 years.

I understand where you're coming on this, however IMO the only thing that is going to make health care more affordable is when doctors and other health care workers decide they are in the business of healing and get over the notion that health care is their ticket to wealth.

The glass and marble health care facilities around this city are embarassing...along with the parking garages full of exotic cars and the secluded subdivisions of trophy homes populated by doctors and technicians..

Included in this critique of health care costs is the notion that everyone needs to have artificial titanium joints put in if their joints ache, and that the latest most expensive medical equipment be bought (which may be used on .005% of patents).

It's THESES type of things that make an annual check up or a simple proceedure like a few stitches cost prohibitive.

[RedCon1]

We're fixing to get into a debate now Potter but I don't have time to do it justice right now. I will get back to you on this. To get started however, I will say this: America is a capitalist society. If you think highly educated and technically skilled workers are going to work for peanuts, you're mistaken. If pay cuts are dictated in any way, future doctors will become future lawyers and you can guess what that will do for the overall problem. For that matter, why not ask football players and baseball players and lawyers and rock stars and CEOs and accountants to all take pay cuts too? That will surely fix our economic problems.

[potter]

If the only reason a person is getting into the health care field is to make money, he/she should forget it.

All this leads to is too many people having too many quadruple bypasses that are unneccesary. The doctors become nothing more than highly compensated sales reps for the most expensive surgical proceedures they can dream up. At this time they are no longer healers, but people to be looked upon with suspicion and distrust...MORE people who are trying to get rich off of your misery.

My wife ran into an oral surgeon who pulled the "oh my gosh you need very expensive surgery right away" bullshit. He plied her for years telling her if she didn't get the work done she would suffer enormously. (we're talking 5 grand AFTER insurance paid their part)

She finally went to a another dentist and asked him to tell her find what was wrong with her teeth. He examined her, took exrays, and pronounced everything fine. She then told him what the other doctor wanted to do, and he called in another doctor, they both re-examined her and declared the other doctor a shyster.

When you take this concept and turn it into and unneeded quadruple bypass, joint replacement, any very invasive surgery it become very frightening. Do you trust the doctor now when he tells you you need surgery? No...because they are salemen BEFORE they are healers.

[RedCon1]

Listen, I am a nurse and I truly do enjoy being able to care for the sick and infirm; in fact, nothing gives me greater personal satisfaction then easing the suffering of a sick person who has come to me for care and I would never refuse to care for a person because they were broke (for any reason in all likliehood). If you are sick and you come to me for help, you'll get it whatever I have to give; however, the fact remains, it is a capitalist society and I deserve to be compensated for my labor just like any other professional. What's more, I have spent many thousands of dollars obtaining the degree that authorizes me to practice college. I will be paying off student loans for the next decade so I don't want to hear this altruistic bull shit. Furthermore, the wages of health care workers probably have the least to do with the health care crsis we now face. The fact that the government is the single largest contributer of healthcare dollars has a hell of a lot to do with the problem. This problem is directly related to the dwindling medicare employer/employee contributions resulting from the global economy. There's more than that too. Again, however, I am pressed for time. More to follow.

[CockySOB]

Except for the embryonic stem cell research... YES. But you don't make distinctions, so I have to vote NO.

[potter]

Listen, I am a nurse and I truly do enjoy being able to care for the sick and infirm; in fact, nothing gives me greater personal satisfaction then easing the suffering of a sick person who has come to me for care and I would never refuse to care for a person because they were broke (for any reason in all likliehood). If you are sick and you come to me for help, you'll get it whatever I have to give; however, the fact remains, it is a capitalist society and I deserve to be compensated for my labor just like any other professional. What's more, I have spent many thousands of dollars obtaining the degree that authorizes me to practice college. I will be paying off student loans for the next decade so I don't want to hear this altruistic bull shit. Furthermore, the wages of health care workers probably have the least to do with the health care crsis we now face. The fact that the government is the single largest contributer of healthcare dollars has a hell of a lot to do with the problem. This problem is directly related to the dwindling medicare employer/employee contributions resulting from the global economy. There's more than that too. Again, however, I am pressed for time. More to follow.

I'm pleased you got into the profession for the right reason. And don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge doctors and health care workers a descent wage, unfortunately that wage is well beyond most peoples ability to pay.

The reason they can demand that wage is because sick people have no choice but to pay it or die. I think the industry takes advantage of that fact too.

And of course the trophy homes, glass and marble medical buildings sprouting up all over, and second and third Benzes don't help the impression any.

I'd also like to hear your thoughts on uneccesary proceedures being done for the profit too.

[RedCon1]

I'd also like to hear your thoughts on uneccesary proceedures being done for the profit too.

The advent of the HMO and insurance capitation has made such things nearly unheard of these days. In fact, quite the opposite is true. Today, a doctor receives bonuses from the HMO in which he works for not running tests and for not performing expensive procedures. Which is worse?

Except for the embryonic stem cell research... YES. But you don't make distinctions, so I have to vote NO.

Your answer was consistent with what I was asking as well as your own personal beliefs. Embryonic stem cells are the most important and useful stem cells available and, therefore, their use should not be hampered by our theocracy. My tolerance for such meddling has ended. To me, Christians and Muslims are in the same class. I'm looking forward to the holy war so they will kill each other off. A happier outcome I can not envision.

[gurutoo]

YES.

[thescotster19]

I'm looking forward to the holy war so they will kill each other off. A happier outcome I can not envision.

Well said.